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Current Replies for Re: Unprofessional Goldendoodle breeder on Vancouver Island, BC
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AnkhuIGs
5/2/2010 3:26:40 PM
Posts: 1904
www.akc.org
www.ukcdogs.com
www.ckc.ca

Go to those websites mnesbitt. Please find where "doodle" anythings are a registered or recognized breed.

Also check with the FCI
www.fci.be

This is the world organization that heads and recongnize breed registries and breeds.

NO WHERE...will you find a "oodle" anything.

You know everything..it seems. IF you did...how is it you got so screwed over by your wonderful...perfect...."oodle" breeder?????

There is no such thing as an OODLE breed. It is a fabrication of mixed breed mutt breeders to convince individuals just like you mnesbitt, (and it obviously worked) that they are getting something grand, new exciting...oh...and...expensive.

Oh...and btw...please elaborate in detail, as you your years of experience with dogs, dog health, dog breeding, for each and every breed. Include your detailed knowledge of the various ogranizations associated with the research into canine health, and how you have contributed to those databases from your vast years of dog breeding?

I await...your profound ...arcticulation on what must be decades of knowledge, experience and wisdom.

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
pineledge6
5/2/2010 8:08:52 PM
Posts: 22
Nothing speaks louder than actual, hands on experience. My ACTUAL experience has been that mutts are NOT healthier than purebreds. And unfortunately for me, they have actually been much unhealthier (would you like me to list all the health issues between my two mutts and those of all my purebreds over the years since you don't seem to believe me?). Again, I have discussed this with other dog owners (in other words, those with actual experience) and, again, as I have said, the same observations have been made by many other people. You can't believe everything you read or hear. You think that as purebred breeders we are just mad that you, gasp, are interested in a mutt. That is not the case with me (I can't speak for the others). We may seem harsh but we are just trying to warn you, get you to see the other side of the "story" and yet you get all defensive. If you want a goldendoodle, go for it, just don't come crying here when something goes wrong. And it is true, no respectable breeder with quality dogs would sell to anyone that is mixing breeds, ergo, these "designer" dogs are not quality. Too many people fail to realize that and pay as much or much more for a mutt as they would for a quality purebred from a breeder who health tests and works very hard to rid their lines of health issues. Take the time to look around and you will see these "designer" dog breeders are after one thing, money.

Go to a shelter.
mnesbitt
5/3/2010 10:19:12 PM
Posts: 9
Hello Ankuhl G's

You say that because a handful of groups do not recognize an 'oodle', that no such thing exists.

You know what, Iran doesn't seem to recognize Israel as a real country either. Does that mean that Israel does not exist in some form? By your logic it sure doesn't.

Go ahead and call it a mutt. I attach no negative annotation with such a term, even though I know some do.

Listen here Serena, I am almost 100% sure that my experience with dogs, while formidable, doesn't match yours. But I also am almost 100% sure that I understand the reality of genetic predisposition of purebreeds compared to that of mutts more than you. That reality is all I need to win the last arugment I made. Genetic realities are ubiquitous. I have never contributed to canine health directly, but have contributed to understanding of genomics though two publications. Please excuse me if I hesitate to give you and the rest of the community here that is galvanized against me the means to contact me directly. I will not give you those references.

Nobody needs decades of wisdom to understand basic biology. All you need to do is pick up a textbook and stop believing everything some dog breeder has told you. Or better yet, find a copy of the paper I cited earlier. Go ahead and read it. Understand it first. I didn't write it, somebody with 'decades of experience' did. The authour is clearly pro-purebred breeders (note: I am not anti-purebred breeder), but even he has picked up a textbook and understands the reality.

Ankuhl G, why don't you provide some actual peer-reviewed evidence that suggests a mutt is genetically inferior when compared to a purebred?

You are just another sycophant that spews gospel they've been fed. I am sure you do great work at the animal rescue, and I respect that. I 100% whole-heartedly endorse placing lost dogs in new, caring homes. I just think you picked a fight with an opponent that never had an issue with your ideas to begin with.

But you do your image of maturity no favours when you mistake 'mnesbitt' for 'mnestitt', as you did earlier. I met kids in grade 8 that did that, but nobody since...
AnkhuIGs
5/4/2010 4:50:24 AM
Posts: 1904
You read two books on Genetics..or two papers..whichever...have absolutely NO experience with dogs or dog breeding, YET you seem to feel you have more intellectual knowledge in regards to genetics and dogs breeding...exactly...uhmm...WHY?????????

FACT..if you breed 2 dogs together WITH THE gene for Hip Disp. YOU will get affected puppies or carrier puppies. IT does not matter what those 2 breeds are. As i said, they could be 2 Poodles, they could be a Poodle and a golden. Genetic facts DO NOT change just because you want them to.

FACT...oodle breeders do NOT have health tested stock, or quality stock (meaning dogs bred to fit the standard and do the job they were original bred for, from long lines of health tested animals). and the reason why is..NO responsible breeder would place a dog in one of those breeding situations. ERGO...chances of having health problems increase drastically with mixed breed dogs.

FACT...it takes MORE than one generation..to make a new breed. DUH! It takes decades of an very organized and carefully control breeding program. Oodle breeders do not do this, do not care...because the only plan they have is breeding for money.

FACT...breedng for money means, you cut corners. Poor quality dogs are cheap, health tests are expensive, so are not done, quality food is expensive so not used, vet visits are rare because that costs money. Breed them every cycle to get as much money out of that uterus as possible. No money or time spend on training or socializing cause that cuts into the bottom line.

FACT...i know this..because THANKYOU GOVERNMENT...an oodle breeding farm was just closed down a few miles away from where i live. Numerous complaints about unhealthy dogs, and dogs with bad temperaments. Nothing like a few personal lawsuits to shut down that money making Puppy Mill breeding facility.

BTW...this is not Iran..and a discussion of whether they recognize Israel is totally non relevant. Has NOTHING to do with the topic. There are many many breeds seeking recognition, but they are breeds with centuries of breeding records behind them...and they GO thro those organizations i listed. There are National KC in every country, that are all linked together.

Now....you are obviously one of those individuals that are going to stick by the mistakes they have made in life, because they cannot admit, the information they based choices on is wrong, and refuse to either research, or LISTEN to anyone else who has actual hands on experience.

You..are what i term as a puppymill pet owner. Someone who doesn't give a rats ass about the dogs...just GIVE Me one NOW...to satisfy my urge/desire to have a dog RIGHT this instant,....that is the latest fad. Someone who will defend the puppymill and breeder they got their dog from ...because "they are a nice person"....To use your apple and oranges type of argument... Yanno...Ted Bundy was supposedly a nice guy too.

You're exactly like the couple that was referred to me, to get information about showing their dog. They showed up with a mixed breed mutt. Cross between a French Bulldog and a Boston Terrier. The breeder told them it was show quality, and would get its Championship very fast. They paid 3000$ for it. She was heartbroken when i told her she could not show it in the show she was inquiring about. He was PO'd ...just like you, and demanded in verify WHY he could not show his dog. I actually showed them the AKC website, showed them that their dog was not on it, and showed them that the dog could not be registered...ergo...not be shown. Did they have any papers? Well...no...but they were told it could be registered....and shown in the AKC. Bascially..they paid 2950$ too much for a mutt. He left still PO'd...and contacted several other individuals who show dogs, only to be told the same thing. I am sure he is still convinced his dog is show quality.

Your not going to learn...you do not want to learn...you came here for no other reason that to bad mouth the breeder you got your dog from, and then when you were informed they were a bad breeder for more reasons than those you listed...suddenly your RUSHING to their defense?????


You have entertained enough....please...find an oodle forum somewhere. I am sure they will LOVE to hear your inaccurate information about the genetic health of mutts vs Purebreds.

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
AnkhuIGs
5/4/2010 5:12:24 AM
Posts: 1904
and...ROFLMAO...a typo??? is the slam you use against me? and YOU talk about maturity?????????

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
PinOaksKennel
5/4/2010 1:38:44 PM
Posts: 20
I believe this person is just on here to cause argument to see how many folks he can get mad. If not, and he or she is sincere, go spend your money on a doodle, the more the better. No one here seems to be able to convince you otherwise. You might want to go ahead and research vets in your area to see if you can find one that is cheaper than the rest. You might even see if one gives "volume" discounts. My experience with doodles and "designer" dogs? Not much....mostly Rescues that have been turned into us for temperment or health issues that the prev owners did not want to deal with, could not afford, or the breeder would not take back. Hey! here's an idea! You want a golden doodle? Get one from the golden doodle Rescue (I'm sure there is one, right?), or Humane Society! Now instead of paying them their normal adoption fee, give them the $1000 or so you were going to pay for one from the breeder. I'm sure the Rescue or Humane Society will gladly take the extra as a donation to help them defray costs.
www.pinoakskennel.org
www.fieldofdreamsrescue.org
muddyfeet
5/8/2010 5:03:14 AM
Posts: 137
So all the talk afterward about health being the reason he wanted this crossbred dog.. is frankly just lip service..
He is mad he did not get his puppy on demand..

He is not intrested understanding the problem we all have with "oddles" or frankly a lot of other "purebred" litters is no one is USING good quality dogs with these crosses.. just dogs that are the result of breeders who do not care, do not health test or do no pedigree reaserch..
The facts are a breeder who does these things would be VERY unlikly to offer a dog for breeding..and only used in a breeding program that ALSO did these things.. The facts that even in the best litter only a few or one pupy in that litter may be of breeding quality.. and most SERIOUS breeders KEEP these puppies themselves.. They do not sell it to a commercial kennel, or allow someone looking to skip all this stuff and hard work.. just so they can breed it..

But people cannot understand a GOOD breeder NEVER EVER sells their dogs to someone else to place.. yet people buy the line "qulity breeders" from pet stores and brokers all the time..

These breeders do not even know where their dogs end up, let alone what health they are in THEY are the ones responsible for the HEALTH problems in the breed..

so guess where, That so called quality "parent" stock.. come from?

It is the very same breeders who perpetuate health problems in each breed..it is the same breeder who are NOT selective where breeding dogs end up..
To get a dog to breed like this one has to get a dog from a breeder who frankly does not care and will sell them with breeding rights to ever has the cash in hand.. So the "parent" stock is NOT from lines that there has been a reall effort to eliminate health concerns. or at the least there is NO Family tree information as to potential problems..
There is no way to know what they may pass on in these "new" designer puppies..or even a litter bred to another dog from the same breed..

The facts are this is a higher volume kennel, good or bad

This is someone who does not have the time to give individual attention to their dogs and litters.. and even puts that on their website they have a state of the art kennel, and Staff.. Is this a Positive thing?
Add to this they cannot keep propepr records of their dogs? No Responsible stud dog owner would even breed to a bitch without COPIES of this information before a breeding takes place..So how was it "lost".. So makes a big impression as to the quality of stud dog did they used in this litter.

One would think that would scare someone away..But if you want to make this a arugment about purebreds vs mixes.. go ahead..

There are plenty of RED FLAGS that are there that have Nothing to do with the Breed they are breeding.. and this I guess is not a problem?

To me.. it is a point.. does this breeder take back the dogs they produce.. no matter what for their lifetime?
Do they health test?
do they reaserch pedigrees (family tree) of their parent stock for these litters?
Do they support resuce?
Do they give individual time and attention to each and every adult dog they own, and litter they produce?

Do they do anything More than just breed them?

Or is it a COMMERCIAL kennel that only goal is to produce as may "pet" dogs as the market will bear?

The fact he is a "oddle" breeder really does not matter.. and I would be just as critical if it was a Poodle or golden kennel..

He should be happy he got out of this purchase.. and use his extensive knwolage of genetics to be SELECTIVE about the parent stock of the dog he purchases.. and the quality of breeder he gets his dog from..

Designer breeder or NOT.. the same rules and requirements are the SAME..

Amanda





mnesbitt
5/24/2010 2:27:15 AM
Posts: 9
******(removed by Mod. No personal attacks)***********
Deece
9/29/2012 12:00:11 PM
Posts: 47
I guess this discussion is over
Deece
9/29/2012 12:03:25 PM
Posts: 47
Are we done?
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