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Current Replies for Breeding question
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Babynurse
12/30/2008 8:52:08 AM
Posts: 4
I have a registered female boston, vet checked and approved for breeding. She is 2 years old and this is her 3rd season. The male I have chosen is also healthy and vet checked with registration papers and he is owned by a friend. I have never bred dogs before so I have some questions. I did alot of research before I decided to breed them.

I noticed signs of heat (swelling) on the 22nd and a small amount of bleeding on the 23rd. On the 27th she tried to stand for a neighbors dog (took her out to potty) so I made arrangements for the male to come to my house. He arrived on the 28th and she immediately accepted him and they tied for 10 minutes. On the morning of the 29th they had another 10 minute tie but that time it took an hour and a half of him sniffing then turning away.

The same thing is happening today. (30th). They play and run and he sniffs and examines but does not seem interested anymore. She on the other hand is chasing him, turning her rump to him, and is obviously making gestures that she is willing but he is just not interested.

Can anyone tell me why he is doing this? How can I help them? Do I have my timing wrong?
AnkhuIGs
12/30/2008 3:37:46 PM
Posts: 1904
Just exactly what do you mean by Approved for Breeding?

And By Vet Checked, does that mean that your bitch and the stud have been health tested for any genetic problems within the breed?

Have you had Brucelosis tests done on either?

Have you checked into the cost of Cesarian Sections because your breed is one that has a high incidence of C-Section.

Also, what is your reason for breeding and what makes you believe that your dog is worthy of being bred or needs to be bred? What is in it for you?

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
muddyfeet
1/1/2009 5:16:38 AM
Posts: 137
Well the dogs have tied,.odds are good your dog is pregnant.. I Just hope that you have done some more reaserch and ACTUALL breed health testing and pedigree reaserch than your e-mail hints at?

Well, About the only way to know for sure if your timining was "right" is with Vaginal smears and ideally progeserone assay..unless you are planning on force mating the dogs or doing a AI.. if they do not want to breed.. nothing you do will change this.. so you will have to see if the one or two ties was enough..

unfortunaly.. Some btches their behavior is correct.. they will stand when fertile, males will only try to mate a female that is in her fertile period..
Some bitches accept early, late or not at all, some stud dogs do not know when to breed.. without hormone assays telling you when she ovulated.. it is a guessing game.. without using AI in the cases where behavior is not accurate.. you cannot get a litter..

SO you know.. Progesterone assay also gives you a VERY accurate whelping date.. so does daily vaginal smears.. in a breed that OFTEN does need to have a c-section this can be vital to know.. unfortunaly counting days of breeding can give you dates a week early to a week late..

in 3-4 weeks your vet can do a ultrasound (ideal) or most can palpate accuratly.. make your appt..this is all you can do at this point.. and you SHOULD do it..

as mentioned above.. You DO need to look into your options on emergency C section because MOST bostons cannot welp without vet assistance..
Sometimes you can count on the early ultrasound.. but keep in mind there are several weeks still till whelping date.. knowing how many pups, how large is extemely important.. esp in BOSTONS.. so getting a ADDITIONAL pre whelping exam, and X-ray at 50-60 days is also needed.. some bostons can whelp a few pups only to not be able to whelp the last pups.. you need to know for sure when she is done to avoid this.. some never start labor.. or their temp drops and no puppies.. EMERGENCY..

Get a VERY GOOD book..NOW!!!!! Not just internet articles on Whelping pups.. you need to be very confidant about her whelping date and how to take her temp and monitor her..you need to be very cofidant about her nutrition and care.. you need to have all your whelping supplies all ready before the day..

Failure to do so can result in time delay.. loosing pups.. and YES loosing her.. I hope that is something you are READY and prepared to deal with..

You need to check into decide if you are going to do dewclaw removal.. a lot of vets no longer do this..so you may have to find another vet..
you need to also talk with your vet about her post natal care and checkup.. you need to be very confidant about cheking for cleft palates.. in this breed..

Deafness is COMMON in bostons, some because of a gene, she should have been BEAR tested so should have been the stud dog.. But because of the genetics of the white pattern of the breed.. pups with any signifigant amount of white on their heads.. White headed pups, or pups with white ears are often deaf.. so you need to ALSO find a vet that does offer BEAR testing.. before you sell them..
Good breeders BEAR test all their pups before sale BTW..


Good luck..

Amanda



Babynurse
1/1/2009 8:46:40 AM
Posts: 4
Sorry I did not mention more information in my first post. Yes, I am aware that they frequently have to have sections for delivery. My vet told me that up front. I have studied more on the entire breeding cycle. I am a neonatal nurse and one of my coworkers has a history of working at a vet school and gave me a book on canine endocrinology and reproduction. My background makes it easy for me to understand it. We have had 3 successful matings, but it does take a while for the male to decide to mount. I think that the male would be better off on his own turf but I chose to bring him here because I want to be the one supervising this and I dont really feel comfortable sending my girl off. She is a part of our family. I am bringing her in to the vet in a couple of weeks for a check and we plan for x-rays closer to whelping time. If we need a section we will schedule it.

I will tell you that I have not had her genetically tested. (or the male for that matter). But that is something I am surely going to look into. I do know however that they have good pedigrees. I don't show them, that is not what I am into but I do think they make wonderful companion dogs. They are very loyal, very smart, and learn quickly. These two have the perfect temperment and they have markings consistent with the breed standard. There are some show dogs in the pedigrees.

I do not have deposits on puppies yet but I do have several people waiting on puppies.

I am new at this, so I am learning as a go. And who knows.. after it is all said and done I may decide its not for me and have her spayed. Or I may have more testing done on her or find another female and find my own suitable male.

Thanks
AnkhuIGs
1/2/2009 7:31:40 AM
Posts: 1904
Alot of pet owners believe their dog is the most wonderful and perfect dog in the whole world, and they beleive everyone should have a dog just like it.

Problem is, shelters are FULL of dogs as a result of it. There are almost 1000 Boston Terriers on petfinder right now. Those are just the ones listed. I am willing to bet there are plenty more.

With no genetic testing on your dogs, and no real idea of whether the pedigree is good or not. Just because it has Champions in it does not mean its a good pedigree, because experienced breeders KNOW what is in a pedigree. They know what problems have been produced, and they know the dogs IN the pedigree. No responsible or ethical breeder sells puppies that are put in breeding situations that are NOT supposed to be in breeding situations. Your note's give the impression that this dog did not come from a reputable breeder or they would be giving you advice on breeding AND furthermore, if the dog had been sold as a pet, they would not be allowing you to breed the dog.

Its not just the genetic testing on the Sire/Dam, its also the genetic testing on the dogs in the pedigree, and knowing what they all produced during their lifetime. Your dog might not be affected, but it might be a carrier. Many states have Puppy Lemon Laws now, and this means that you, as a breeder, and you ARE a breeder, are liable for any costs associated with any health problems produced in their puppies.

This is something else you need to be prepared for.

I know you say you do not want to show, but the reason for showing dogs is to determine the best breeding stock possible. No, not all show dogs should be bred...and not all dogs that are not Championed are eliminated either. Breeding is not just the simple matter of putting two dogs together.

If you are a nurse..then you need to look up what brucelosis is and PRAY that neither dog is infected with it....because its also a disease that can pass from dogs to humans...and it has no cure.

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
Babynurse
1/2/2009 6:47:11 PM
Posts: 4
You see the problem here is that I am NOT an experienced breeder. Thats why I came to this forum for advice from Experienced breeders. I don't know what to look for in a pedigree, but I am willing to learn. I have to start somewhere in the learning process, which is usually at the beginning.. not advanced as breeders on this forum. I have not asked the breeder of my dog about any breeding advice. I believe she is a good breeder and has a good reputation and she comes highly recommended by my vet, but breeding was not discussed when I got my dog.

I have no idea how to look at a pedigree and tell whether or not each dog has been genetically tested or how to know if there are any health problems in those dogs.

I am seeking information. Please do not blame me for the dog overpopulation of the country because I have never bred animals before. As a matter of fact, we have several aminals, and everyone that lives at my house is either spayed or neutered except my boston. So I believe we are pretty responsible with our pets. I have 2 dogs that I found as puppies that I decided to keep instead of putting in a shelter. I have a kitten that strayed up at my house and we are nursing her back to health. I have 2 cats that I adopted from a shelter and 2 more that were brought home as strays. They have all been kept up to date at the vet and been spayed/neutered. We love animals and we can afford to take care of them. I know my female, my other animals, and the male we are breeding to have been checked for brucellosis and they are negative. As I said, they have been vet checked and are healthy.
We probably take better care of our animals that we take care of ourselves.

As for my boston, she has already been bred. I have her papers but as I said, I dont know squat about any of the dogs listed other than their names and that some have done quite well in shows (so I was told). Nor do I know how to find out. What I do know is that I will do the same for them as I do for my other animals and make sure they are healthy.

If there is a way for me to learn the things I need to know, please explain it to me so I can learn. Even the most experienced breeders surely were not experienced when they started.


Domena
1/3/2009 3:11:24 PM
Posts: 25
Unfortunately, it is best to learn first then breed. Jumping in without complete knowledge of what you are doing is not wise. Breeding should not be a "learn as you go" process. As a neo natal nurse you were required to obtain your education first, right?

You need to contact someone to act as a mentor. This is the website for the parent club, http://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/
You need to read everything on this site to make yourself aware of the genetic problems in the breed as listed here http://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/health/notebook.html

Breeding is both a science and an art. Too many people jump into it without the knowledge necessary to produce healthy dogs that conform to the standard. It is the breed and the individual dogs that suffer as a result.

Andrea
Kivalina Siberian Huskies
www.pawtown.com/kivalina
Babynurse
1/3/2009 8:04:57 PM
Posts: 4
Thanks for that response Andrea. Yes, it is sort of like nursing, but kinda not. One has to go to school and get a degree to be a nurse. But school teaches just the basics. When I went to work in the nursery, I knew nursing, but nothing about taking care of babies. In that situation, as it is with most nuring positions, it was a "learn as you go" experience. It's usually on-the-job training. But we are given a preceptor or "mentor". But I completely understand what your saying.

I went to the website you mentioned and there is a wealth of information there. It is quite interesting. My dog is more than likely already pregnant. She will get the best care possible as well as her babies. I fully intend to have her tested and I am going to do some research on her background. No more litters until that is done, and not unless all is satisfactory. But we love her and if all is not up to par I will just spay her. I am going to do some research on the male as well.

I am also going to see if I can find an experienced breeder nearby. What I find fascinating is that people flock to champion sires and his genes end up flooding the population, and that is precisely what damages the breed population. I also went on petfinder and looked up bostons. It was startling to see how many are on there at rescues. Alot were there because people used them for breeding and when they were no longer acceptable for breeding purposes they throwed them away. I know I could never have a big kennel. I would rather have a couple of dogs that I love dearly and let them have litters occasionally (as long as they are sound of course)than to just have a place full of dogs that do nothing but breed and have babies. (I hope that is not offensive to any of the breeders here.)

Anyway, thanks for the information.
MaryK
1/3/2009 9:56:09 PM
Posts: 137
"I have to start somewhere in the learning process, which is usually at the beginning.. "

Well, breeding is NOT a starter activity! You had much to learn before you ever put two dogs together without the necessary knowledge to produce living beings.

It's rather insulting that you decided to do this and then just figured others would help you along and you'd learn as you go. Do you not realize this is life and death, and that you are responsible for the resulting puppies? You did nothing to minimize the risk of health problems in the puppies.

"Even the most experienced breeders surely were not experienced when they started."

You're very wrong about that. Many of us spent a lot of time learning and essentially apprenticing before we ever bred a litter, and we did so under the guidance of experienced breeders and mentors. Speaking for myself, I owned, showed, trained, researched my breed and its history, pedigrees, health, lines, problems, etc for 15 years before I ever bred a litter. And I know a lot of breeders with the same sort of history.

We took the creation of puppies seriously. It's unfortunate that you didn't.
AnkhuIGs
1/4/2009 6:21:46 AM
Posts: 1904
No....the BT's on petfinder are NOT there because they were discarded out a of a breeding program.

over 90% of the dogs IN rescue groups and shelters are the result of breeders....just like you. Puppies bred without forthought to the health, wellbeing, and correct placement. They wind up in breeding situations, or when the family is bored with the cute puppy they get dumped.

Responsible breeders do not dump dogs. They place retired dogs just as carefully as they place any puppies. You rarely IF ever find puppies from responsible breeders in rescue/shelters because they take their dogs back. We are prepared to take back every dog we ever bred and we are prepared to keep out puppies until suitable homes that meed our placement criteria are found.

Puppymills do not retire dogs, they auction them off to another mill, or in some cases they give old, bred to death or unpopular dogs to rescue groups. Puppymills will always be around and they are not responsible breeders in my opinion.

However i do not consider your long term breeding plans to be responsible either. You still make no mention of showing your dog, or your reason for breeding, but you make it clear you intend to keep a few around and have a few litters. Regardless of the fact your making inroads to learning, what i sense, is it still comes down to you just want to breed and make some money off of it.

I work diligently in rescue, and i clean up alot of messes left by well intended first time breeders like yourself. You need to out and out STOP any breeding plans....PERIOD. Spay your bitch. Find a mentor and learn from the bottom up....and that is going to take years. Not weeks, not months...but years. Once you are at a point where you can easily recognize a good dog, and a good breeder, then you are at a point where you can start to plan a breeding.

I have a litter on the ground right now. It took me 2 years just to plan this litter (thats not counting the 2 years before that working with this bitch, and the 3 years prior to that just with showing). The puppies are 3 months old now, and STILL with me, because i will not just place them anywhere. That is a commitment that as a responsible breeder, i am prepared to do.

I also firmly believe, that if you do not do rescue, then you should not breed.

Serena Galloway
IGCA rescue Colorado

No Part of this msg may be forwarded without the author's permission
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